Interviewed by Taylor Anderson

Summary:

In the latest special issue of Word Beats & Life: The Global Journal of Hip-Hop Culture (WBLJ), we are exposed to the dark past and bright future of South Africa. We sat down with Editor-in-Chief, Dennis Winston, and guest editors of the issue, Msia Kibona Clark and Fete Jen, to learn more about what inspired them to dig deeper into South Africa’s blossoming hip-hop culture and the artists that thrive within it.
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WBL: What makes this journal issue “special”?

Dennis: Our general issue consists of contributor submissions from all across the board and doesn't deal with a specific subject. We accept work from anyone who’s interested in writing about hip-hop music and culture.

Our special issues are different because they have a focus. It zeroes in on a specific idea as it relates to hip-hop music and culture. For this issue, we identified a theme that deals with regional influences in hip-hop music. 

WBL: What inspired you to do an issue dedicated to South Africa? Any personal connections?

D: I've known about Msia for a while because of the work she's done at Howard University so I reached out to her thinking broadly about the topic of hip-hop in Africa. We knew we had to narrow our topic and it ended up becoming the problem of “where do we want to focus our energy?” Hip-hop across the continent is so influential and there were so many places that we could go but through a matter of choices and discussion, we landed on South Africa. 

Msia: I know that we wanted to do a special issue on Africa but for me, it was truly about not wanting to just do "Africa." There are 54 countries there and people have the habit of lumping the continent of Africa into the "country" of Africa. I thought that if we were going to pick one country, the two of them that had the biggest hip-hop scenes were Senegal and South Africa. With Senegal, they’re a french speaking country and none of us speak french so there was a language barrier. The connection between the U.S. and South Africa has always been there so it seemed like the better choice of the two. Even Mazi, WBL’s founder, had connections in SA. Jen was also living in SA which is what made me reach out to her.

WBL: I see the relevance of the racial issues connecting the U.S. and South Africa, too. Was that a big part that you wanted to focus on?

M: It was! Touching on it made me realize how much deeper the issues go. There’s so much tension there, yet there's still a lot that hasn't really been talked about so I'm hoping that more is able to come of that conversation thanks to this issue. 

WBL: What topics or ideas stood out to you the most while working on the issue?

D: One of the topics that I found interesting was how language played a part in South African culture. There were a few pieces in the issue that talked about racial dynamics but the piece “Being with Hip-Hop Language Technicians in a Post-National South Africa” by Quentin Williams was really profound. I think that story is a great starting point for American readers, especially since our relationships and struggles with race in hip-hop are so similar. Being able to make those connections myself was really valuable. 

Jen: ​​For me, the standouts were the album reviews by Gigi Lamayne that helped me to understand what was behind certain songs and be able to get to know an album a bit better. Learning about the artists gave you more insight into where they're coming from and their inspirations in influencing the hip-hop scene in South Africa. I just really liked the personal nature of those. 

M: Understanding that the role of language is so tied to race in South Africa. Like how speaking Afrikaaps (aka Kaaps) or Zulu is tied to being colored. In rap music, there are subcategories that are based on your language which is then tied to your ethnic identities. 

In the interview with Dope Saint Jude, she talks about the anti-blackness within colored communities. Her admitting to that was interesting because I hadn’t fully realized the depth of the issue. There were a lot of conversations that really needed to happen. A lot of people, including myself, did not realize that those divisions still existed within the SA community. We were also very conscious not to center those who already have immense privilege in South Africa. 

D: I cannot commend Msia and Jen enough for helping us navigate the race issue. We had editors for scholarship, creative writing, and even the education component, but we were missing that conscious mindset. We relied on Msia and in turn, we created a great dialogue within the text. Going back to Jen's point, what I think distinguishes a special issue from a general issue is all of the primary research that goes into a special issue. This issue is what could be the first line of study for many people.

J: The topics of ethnic cleansing and the regional divide of South Africa were really interesting to me. The timeline we created for the issue brought up how similar the geographic divide was in the U.S. with Americans adopting an East Coast versus West Coast divide which matched up with the Johannesburg versus cape town versus Durban divide in South Africa. 

WBL: Who are some of your favorite music influences that embody African culture in Hip-Hop?

D: This special issue introduced me to Dope Saint Jude as she’s been a pleasant addition to my rotation. There are so many artists across the continent. Nigeria is also another place with heavy influence in hip-hop that's distinctly its own without borrowing culture or trying to mimic someone else. This issue has opened us up to the possibility of highlighting other places that are having their own periods of hip-hop expression. 

J: Hip-Hop Pantsula's "Harambe" is always on rotation in my playlists. He did a Daraja Walk from South Africa all the way up to Kenya on a mission to unite the youth of Africa. He stopped in Tanzania while I was living there and I was able to meet him. There are plenty of young, up-and-coming artists who are really dope on the continent. 

M: I've been listening to a lot more African artists who are UK-based. Little Simz is an amazing Nigerian-British artist who incorporates grime and hip-hop into her music. Shay Bo is another Nigerian-British artist who I've been listening to a lot that had her debut album release this year. Youngsta CPT is also fascinating to me with the way he draws parallels between Cape Town and Compton. His song and video, "For Coloured Girls," featured colored women to represent Cape Town's colored culture. Teaching a class on hip-hop in Africa is where I hear and learn about all these new artists. I love being able to appreciate their music while taking the time to understand and dissect the meanings behind it.

J: I think we should also mention Sampa the Great! Her presence and her videos are so dope. Another great artist from South Africa is Indigo Stella. She caught my attention with her lyrics and the way that her confidence comes across.

WBL: What were some challenges you faced while working on the issue? How did you persevere?

M:  I wish we had submissions that touched more on the regional differences in South Africa. I don't think people appreciate the differences unless they know what they are! I don't know enough to write about it so I wish we had someone who gave us a breakdown and overview of the differences in South African hip-hop. The main challenge was wanting certain content or not being able to write about something properly because you don't have first-hand knowledge. 

D: The good news is that we can extend these conversations in future general issues!

J: I think one challenge that most journals have is the quality of submissions and having to say “No.” It can be hard to go back to certain people and say "Sorry, you didn't make the cut." 

M: That wasn't a challenge for me! I’ve been on that side of submission and as long as my work gets ripped apart in a way that is meant to improve my craft, I am only going to become a better artist because of it. The goal of the reviewer is to improve the feel of certain content so I have no problem doing it in order to make them better writers and researchers. I’m never doing it just to be mean. Jen is nice, though!

J: We did want to incorporate more poetry so we had Alan, Associate Editor at WBL, help us with that. It was hard getting pieces that we deemed good enough to put in the issue. He went through a lot of submissions!

D: Especially because poetry has become a benchmark of our past journal issues, Alan had raised the bar for submissions. Another challenge was negotiating a schedule in order to successfully create this issue. Some folks work on an academic schedule or on professional timelines, so trying to navigate that was difficult. Ultimately, we got there and all the issues that we had were fulfilled by the end result. We're definitely seeing the fruits of our labor.